Curse

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiku

No, look who I am playing with. You fail to see?

Go look at the top 100 for a second and come back to the discussion, please.

I'm doing *exactly* the same thing as Rofl and Ekelon.

UnKn0wN415 · Feb 09, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

You're not timing your speed buffs right. Plain and simple. Just because you don't understand how to do it doesn't mean it requires cheating to accomplish it.

its a theory, I mean if people can hax a way to get Mall in DoA what can stop people from doing this...

Raiku · Feb 09, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Go look at the top 100 for a second and come back to the discussion, please.

I'm doing *exactly* the same thing as Rofl and Ekelon.

Do you have any idea what the purpose of the two screen shots?

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Anyhow, those who have figured that out are already just doing the same exact things as each other. No harm in destroying their "eliteness" of having this knowhow by opening it up to everyone else who hasn't yet figured it out via Obs Mode so that they can do the same thing. Figuring out how to do the race map in "the most perfectly exploitative way possible" is not a "respectable secret" that is worthy to be kept to a few "elite" players.

1) The original method was posted (with several inaccuracies; the post detailed a suboptimal way of going about it) by a player last year. You could try searching "rollerbeetle map guru" in Google and reading through the guru thread that comes up on the first page if you're feeling resourceful.

2) It's a bit more complicated than you describe in that a good player also has to defend against early KDs, etc. to post a top time. But, as I noted in an earlier response: nothing good can come of an obs mode for this. It would just result in a lag-generating competition for the same line in each and every match.

I've played in matches with six good people in it. There was a glitch at the end of one of the previous rollerbeetle events, where people that were out there at the end of it could stay out there. Once the field dwindled to the serious players, no one could post a time. Everyone lagged everyone else out competing for the same line, and no one could post a top 100 score despite the fact that every match involved four or five players that were in the top 100 that weekend.

All an obs mode would do is respecify the luck element of posting a good time and make it even more dependent upon catching a run with a bunch of bad players in it. I fail to see how this improves the situation.

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiku

Do you have any idea what the purpose of the two screen shots?

Why yes, I do. You're complaining that there's a massive discrepancy between the 481k run and the low score posted in the run he was in with you.

Posting a top time with the Echo/SRB method in any individual run is completely luck-dependent. If you don't get the combo, you're screwed, because you commit all of your resources after the second checkpoint to hitting the boxes in the water as fast as you possibly can. Unless you get some extremely lucky powerups after that time, if you fail to combo you can't possibly post above a 450k.

However, if you're good, given a sufficiently large sample size of runs, eventually you post a good time using that method. Basic statistics.

The concept of sacrificing immediate resources (your long-term RPM bar) for the potential of immediate advantage (echo-SRB and a big lead) is analogous to a gambit in chess. In a gambit, you sacrifice material advantage for space and time advantage.

In any event, I've posted my share of 430's, and even 420's today. If you get KD spammed all match (which starts to happen when everyone and his aunt knows your name because you're at the top of the top 100 or have a lot of entries), you post bad times and there's nothing you can do about it. Harden Shell lasts for four seconds; there's 20-30 between most checkpoiints.

roflcopter ownage · Feb 09, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

1.Syncing does not help, and is very ineficient as martin said.

2. WE DO NOT USE HACKS

3. You don't need 5 supers, my best score, 482219, which i got last year, was achieved with only 1 echo and 1 super.

I perfer quality over quantity. Id rather be #1 than fill the board with scores.

Raiku · Feb 09, 2008, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Why yes, I do. You're complaining that there's a massive discrepancy between the 481k run and the low score posted in the run he was in with you.

Posting a top time with the Echo/SRB method in any individual run is completely luck-dependent. If you don't get the combo, you're screwed, because you commit all of your resources after the second checkpoint to hitting the boxes in the water as fast as you possibly can. Unless you get some extremely lucky powerups after that time, if you fail to combo you can't possibly post above a 450k.

However, if you're good, given a sufficiently large sample size of runs, eventually you post a good time using that method. Basic statistics.

The concept of sacrificing immediate resources (your long-term RPM bar) for the potential of immediate advantage (echo-SRB and a big lead) is analogous to a gambit in chess. In a gambit, you sacrifice material advantage for space and time advantage.

In any event, I've posted my share of 430's, and even 420's today. If you get KD spammed all match (which starts to happen when everyone and his aunt knows your name because you're at the top of the top 100 or have a lot of entries), you post bad times and there's nothing you can do about it. Harden Shell lasts for four seconds; there's 20-30 between most checkpoiints.

I am not complaining, thought, your conclusion and your assumptions are quite as immature as you are.

Even though ROFL-Ropter may be leet, he still win some and lose some> Though, I don't see him ever going to beat his #1 score again. And, I couldn't copy him on that game.

edit. Or the one from last year.

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by roflcopter ownage

You don't need 5 supers, my best score, 482219, which i got last year, was achieved with only 1 echo and 1 super.

Clearly you and Ekelon know something I don't about the stretch between checkpoints 6 and 7. (I'm certain I'm optimized the rest of the way, with the experimental data to prove it.) Particularly since I'm certain I get to the water boxes faster than anyone else

roflcopter ownage · Feb 09, 2008, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Yuris has a different method. I've seen him do it, and it's insane. (At the end of one of the prior beetle events, anyone that stayed out there could continue to play, so I literally raced against him for hours.)

Long and the short of it: he avoids water like the plague (including the water boxes) and spaces the speed buffs out VERY differently. He lags way behind at the beginning (saves Ram AND Dash out of the gate) and never uses the Ram/Dash method. Speed buffs are spaced way, way out. This returns very consistent 468+ times, and can post 480 if he gets lucky and catches an echo and a super from the two boxes he hits. EDIT: either a super or an echo from either box will post a top 100 time at present using that method. Personally, I'm not using it, because I'm swinging for the fences and the Holy Grail 484+ run.

I .

Hmmmm, i may try that out. I wonder if he uses the same begining strategy as me. Overall with teh strategy i use, i get a lot less scores, but with good luck I get some really good ones, which is how i got 482,219 last year.

Horus · Feb 09, 2008, 08:21 AM // 08:21

they should only alow one place in top 100 per person :/

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by roflcopter ownage

Hmmmm, i may try that out. I wonder if he uses the same begining strategy as me. Overall with teh strategy i use, i get a lot less scores, but with good luck I get some really good ones, which is how i got 482,219 last year.

If you're trying to Echo/SRB, hitting the water boxes ASAP is win (assuming sufficient iterations). If not, keeping your RPM meter above 75%-80% as much as possible is the way to go. I definitely feel diminishing marginal returns on the RPM meter as it gets closer and closer to max.

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathermoore Rep

Guess it looks i overlooked the speed restriction on the water and got to caught up with getting echo+srb. :-p

The early Echo/SRB only helps more than your alternatives if you play it flawlessly. That means that you space them out and use the intervening speed buffs at *exactly* the right times. And, of course, you have to protect yourself from KDs and well-timed DLunges, as either will wreck the precision timing.

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by guardian of dragon temple

they should only alow one place in top 100 per person :/

An argument that has been made forcefully since the weekend when the beetles were given out.

In a perfect world, this is true; in the real world, this involves reprogramming how these lists are calculated for all competitive missions, and that's costly. I doubt we'll see that result; further, I seriously doubt that anything will be given away this weekend for those that place in the top 100. The only time that anything was actually given away, it was publicly announced on the GW website that something would be given to those that finished in the top 100.

Since no announcement was made, I think we can safely infer that the prize for being in the top 100 is merely pride of accomplishment.

Navaros · Feb 09, 2008, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

It would just result in a lag-generating competition for the same line in each and every match.

So...keep the most perfect exploitative spot on the map possible to use to get a top time, secret to a few elite players only to exploit, in order to prevent lag.

I'd say it's far more equitable to "out" the secret, and let there be lag.

Massive lag is a better tradeoff than leaving the vast majority of players SOL to be able to compete simply because they are not clued in to the best line.

Zahr Dalsk · Feb 09, 2008, 08:38 AM // 08:38

I see the technically why of resigning causing Dishonour (the game is still continuing when you leave) but I wish they'd fix it. When I see one person leave the compass, I know I can't win, so why stay?

Zahr Dalsk · Feb 09, 2008, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by credit

It's beetle racing, just have fun!

I think people are pissed because the reward for being in the top 100 is a mini rollerbeetle... and these few people have pretty much forced everyone else off the list.

Feathermoore Rep · Feb 09, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Hmm. I still can't post anywhere near 460k consistently. I can post 445k consisently, but theres spots that i just don't know how to keep up the speed. I can pretty much keep the rrpm above 50% altering my course from the home run swing route i was running. And the last half of 6-7 and 7-finish I really improved my speed there taking a different approach to that section. But if i hit it wrong in the between 6 and 7 it screws that up some and you looose significant speed going over those mounds.

But theres still the cave section thats slowing me down. Avoiding the water, I can pass everyone there, however someone tends to get off a odd-timed ram or spit rocks, and theres goes my speed. As well. The last hill is tricky. If you Ram over it to early for some reason if you dont make it far enough down the hill before it ends, your speed drops from 85%+ to less than half even though your going down hill. The slowest section by far with my altered route is now the spiral bridge. With just Dash and Ram, where in the world do you use them to keep up over 50% rrpm and avoiding being Ram'd or KD'd at the same time...Ill keep working on it. I did however just post a 450k time with 1 KDs and no SRBs, which is an improvement then before when i get kd'd.

Ok - I'm sorry but i have to edit for this. Currently Yuris has 45 (give or take a few as i may have missed one or added one) top 100 scores. That's just... insane and wrong.

Feathermoore Rep · Feb 09, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

I was wrong to sort of imply cheating, but really was more of something everyone else knows and i/everyone else doesn't see/realize/know yet about the course.

When everything goes flawlessly, your post realy fast times. Considering i jsut started a match, on accident, 17s late, i got second and a 440k score. Soo pretty much add 17s if everything had gone smooth and i started on time. Thats still only a 457k time, but thats with out a echo+srb.

Uber Mass · Feb 09, 2008, 09:07 AM // 09:07

i guess they just very experienced in doing it.... im a supernubb in beetleracing im happy if i make top3 of a race ^^... What bothers me tho why it doesnt display only their best record iso all records is much more fair for the rest of the players... But thats my 2 cents

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

So...keep the most perfect exploitative spot on the map possible to use to get a top time, secret to a few elite players only to exploit, in order to prevent lag.

I'd say it's far more equitable to "out" the secret, and let there be lag.

Massive lag is a better tradeoff than leaving the vast majority of players SOL to be able to compete simply because they are not clued in to the best line.

Here's the thing, though: Given trial and error, and a full weekend, you can figure it out.

Dark and I did in the first weekend, and we do nothing different than we did then.

If you blow the doors open and create an obs mode, you might as well give away the beetles by random lottery. If you hold things as they are, it becomes possible for additional players to figure out how to accomplish the objective of making top 100.

Do you think that I, or anyone else, told Yuris Sayuri or Ouija Board how to post times with their radically different method? What they produced is ingenuity. What you propose is a lottery. I know which I prefer. I won't begrudge the former if they hammer me out of the top 100 under the new rules by repeatedly posting better times than I can. I would begrudge the latter; random draw is boring and unimaginative.